Spotlight Series

Guest Name: Sherri Gunn

Credentials:  RN, IBCLC – Utah Breastfeeding and Tongue

Sherri Gunn: Awesome. I’m so happy to be here and thank you for this opportunity. I always love talking about what I’m passionate about. So

Dr. Betty DeLass: awesome. Awesome. Me too. We’re in this we’re in this together. So tell us what made you decide to be a nurse and then an IBCLC and like what led you down this whole route?

Sherri Gunn: Okay. Well, it’s been a long road. Um, when I was in kindergarten, I decided I wanted to be a nurse and then no one could persuade me differently. Um, when I was in nursing school, my whole focus was pediatric ICU. Um, and that was where I started and found out it wasn’t my favorite right away. Um, went on to maternity and work in the NICU. Um, and then in the NICU, uh, the lactation ladies had the best shift cuz they had a 4-hour shift and I had just had my third baby and life was crazy and I was like, I want their shift. And so when an opening came, I just jumped at it. Um, because I’d had a difficult time um, nursing my babies as well. And so I knew the difficulty that can come with that world and wanted to just help moms. Um, it’s what I’m pretty passionate about. And uh so I became an IBCLC and then in the IBCLC world I was like wait this baby is not doing well but mom’s got great anatomy. Mom’s got great nipples. Mom’s got a great supply. Like why can’t this baby get milk? So Ann and I deep dived into the tongue tie world and um then I realized that I was working with moms and babies with their tongue ties and helping teach them and they would be like, “Oh my gosh, can you look at my three-year-old?” Or can you look at my 5-year-old or look at my mouth? like, can you am I tongue tied? You know, I I rarely go through 24 hours without looking in somebody’s mouth. Um and so my kids can’t take me anywhere. Um but uh the thing is is that the tongue tie oral function world um is unfortunately really controversial and I don’t know why. Um but it is. And uh I was fired from the hospital for telling a mom that her baby could be tongue-tied and she needed to go get help to get it looked at. I know. Um because as an IBCLC, we can just assess and give suggestions like we’re we’re not a provider. We give suggestions to the mom and baby, you know, the family, the dad, and uh and just support them however we can on wherever they’re in their journey. Um and so became myofunctional therapist so I could help kids and adults with their tongue ties. Um, and then we switched our name from Success with Breastfeeding to Utah Breastfeeding and Tongue Tie Center. Because a lot of times, at least twice a week, I hear parents say, you know, I my pediatrician said, “My baby’s not tongue tied. My lactation consultant said my baby’s not tongue tied. Like, how come you’re the one saying my baby’s tongue tied?” And so I go through a really thorough evaluation and they’re like I said, “Well, did your other provider do what I did?” And they’re like, “Nope.” And I was like, “Well, then they it’s not that they didn’t know your baby was tongue tied. what they were looking for wasn’t there, so they assumed your baby wasn’t tongue tied. So, that’s the long story of how I where I’m at.

Dr. Betty DeLass: Love that. Love that. Okay. What do you feel like makes you obviously like the training and the depth and things like that that you go into to assess these things? What makes you different from anyone else who’s doing this kind of work?

Sherri Gunn: Yeah. Um, so we are a two IBCLC owned practice. That’s very unusual. Um, and because Ann and I are both NICURNs, our training seems to be a little different. Um, our assessment skills and other things like that seems to be just a little more in-depth. Um, and we’ve been around the block a few times. I have six kids and has four. So, I think the other thing that makes us really different is that, um, we just care about the patients. Like I I never want a mom to feel pushed into breastfeeding or pushed into tongue tie releases or you know the fear stuff that they send to moms and babies. Like there’s just a lot. And and I think the thing that makes us different is that we like not that everybody doesn’t care but like we really care and everything we do is about how we can help the patient have the best experience here. um which has led us to a whole host of things that we do here that you wouldn’t find at like a tongue kai center anywhere else. Um but Ann and I have spent thousands of our own dollars and traveled the world listening to and learning from the best the best of the best and we we’ve done that and and it’s not what a lot of IBCLC’s do. So while there’s an amazing phenomenal IBCLC’s and I love them all dearly, they just aren’t trained um to do what we do here.

Dr. Betty DeLass: Yeah. No, I mean you have an extensive background especially being with the nursing degree behind it all too and then the FMP that you’re going for. So that’s amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. Um describe who is an ideal fit now that you like kind of span the horizon of like gen generations I guess of like who are your who who’s your ideal client? Who are the people that you’re serving day in day out and that you love to like just be part of their life?

Sherri Gunn: Well, basically if you have a tongue, so birth to death, uh, we do everybody, but I would say um, our lactation, like our breastfeeding side of things is obviously um, new moms. My favorite is when a mom comes in when she’s pregnant for a prenatal, so we can talk to her and um, even if she’s breastfed before, I mean, my sixth was my hardest nurser, and I’m a professional. This is what I do. And so, you know, sometimes moms are like, “Oh, I got this. This is my third baby or my fourth baby.” and then they’re like, “Wait, I just got thrown for a huge loop. I can’t do this by myself.” Um, but the other thing I really want parents to understand here is that I couldn’t make our title any longer and I couldn’t be Utah breastfeeding and bottle feeding and tongue tie center. Um, but we I mean so many moms don’t think they need to come to us because they’re bottlefeeding and I have worked with a lot of bottled fed babies that are tongue tied. And so it doesn’t it doesn’t matter. Good oral function is needed whether breastfeeding or bottlefeeding. And that’s something I really hate hearing is when doctors or other providers or grandma it’s like, “Well, if you’re not going to breastfeed, why get the tongue tie fixed?” And I’m like, “Wait, wait, whoa, whoa.” Like, it’s not just about bottlefeeding. It’s about sleeping and breathing and eating down the road and speaking and all the other things, right? So I think um I anybody is an ideal fit for us especially if you’ve had as an adult or a kid like if you’ve had problems speaking or sleeping or you know there’s like a lot of questions we ask are like um have you had dentists or braces um once or twice or three times like do we have a failed orthodontia why are we failing why are we having to repeat when we can get the teeth all straight um so there’s I I don’t know if I have an ideal patient we love everyone who walks through our door Um we also do microcurrent neuro feedback here. Um so we have a lot of of kids and adults with anxiety, depression, sleep disorders, um a lot of things that we do here. And honestly, everything at our center is mom driven. And that is because as me as a mom, I realized my kids need neuro feedback. So I called Ann and I was like, “Hey, I have an idea.” Which is our code word for like sit down because we’re going to change something. And um so I tell her I’m like we need to buy this microcurrent neuro feedback machine. She’s like Sherri because just the day before she had called me and said I have an idea. We need to do an IV clinic. And I was like we can’t have two ideas two days in a row. Um but we do and we did and so we have an IV clinic here. We have so as you know we have an MD on staff but we have an IV clinic here. We do microcurrent um neuro feedback as well as lactation bottle feeding and then all things tongue tie myofunctional therapy speech therapy craniosacral therapy.

Dr. Betty DeLass: Amazing amazing such good stuff. Okay. Um tell us something that most uh people don’t know that you think that they should know about your services.

Sherri Gunn: Adults need to have their tongue ties released as well. So um I got mine released at 38. Changed my life. All six of my kids were tongue tied. Um, and I didn’t know it because they have varying symptoms. I have two classic tongue tied kiddos, mouth breathers, poor sleep, poor um, focus during the day, tantrums, anger when they were little. Um, and anyway, yeah, tonsils out when they were four and five. Um, you know, just classic tongue tie. And I have others that weren’t classic tongue tie, but were tongue thrusters or had, you know, bad breath or things like that. So, it’s like there’s not just one thing that is going to be for sure fixed by your tongue tie, but your tongue affects your whole body. And that’s what I wish people would understand. I I’m getting my um nurse practitioner and so I’m doing clinicals right now in um sleep medicine. And the thing that has been so frustrating for me, like legit had to bite my tongue, is that we have patients coming in and they’re getting sleep studies. And this one patient, I just couldn’t hold it any longer. And I said, “Can I look at her tongue in her mouth, please? Really fast, actually before she goes.” Cuz they were sending her for a sleep study and she’s getting fitted for a CPAP. And and the the nurse practitioner is like, “Of course, Sherri, this is your thing.” And I was like, “Yep.” So I sit down to talk to the patient. I said, “Can I look at your tongue?” And she goes, “Oh, I’m tongue tied.” And I was like, “You already know your tongue tied.” She’s like, “Yeah.” She couldn’t lift her tongue past the tip. It the tip was stuck to her gums. And she’s like in her 50s and she’s like, “Well, I sleep with my mouth open. I snore, you know, and now we’re getting into the coorbidities of high blood pressure and strokes, other things like that that can be affected by poor sleep. And she’s she’s going to have a CPAT because that’s the standard of care. But I’m like, we could do myofunctional therapy, get your tongue stronger, release your tongue so it has this right range of motion, get you nasal breathing so that you don’t need the CPAP. and and not I’m not saying that that will cure everything and my husband jokes around that I think tongue ties will fix the world but tongue tie releases um and I don’t but um it’s not that she doesn’t she might not need CPAP as well she might um for oxygen and and central sepia and other things but it’s just another thing that is gets missed right um and I can’t even tell you how many doctors I go and talk to and they’re like wait what’s a tongue tie and I’m like okay Still a lot of work to do

Dr. Betty DeLass: at the very beginning.

Sherri Gunn: Yes.

Dr. Betty DeLass: Yeah. Exactly.

Sherri Gunn: Which and it’s not their fault. They just didn’t get trained on it, right? And it’s not within like their their views of having any problems with it, right? Because if they can speak, they can eat. So for them, they’re like, “Oh, I’m I’m fine.”

Dr. Betty DeLass: Yeah. I don’t need anything. Yeah. Yeah. This super great point. Now I need to go get my tongue looked at to make sure. Okay. Is there anything special that you want to promote to the audience watching here? anything that you have going on, anything you want people to be aware about?

Sherri Gunn: Yeah. Um, so we’re going to be at Be Healthy Utah um this weekend and we have a booth at the expo. We’re giving away a free lactation visit um as well as some other fun prizes and things that we can get that are just going to be fun. So, um, I think that’s ultimately what we want is families to be healthy and to start out understanding the oral function that’s needed for life, um, and how it can affect things as well as, um, just it’s going to be a great event. So, that’s the big that’s the biggest event we have going on right now. Um yeah, I don’t think we have anything else, but we always are we have every um so the other thing that I’m really passionate about is that I don’t think um breastfeeding or bottlefeeding support should only be to those who can afford it or have insurance or um qualify for WIC. There’s a lot of people in the middle who don’t qualify for WIC or who don’t have enough money to have a private consultation. Um so we have a weekly breastfeeding support group that is totally free to the public. Like I love for moms to come and get help or do weight checks on their baby. Um but they have to understand it’s a group session. So it’s not like it’s a little different than the one-on-one hour you spend with me. It’s run by our interns and um but it’s a lot of it’s and it just I think 75% of the what I do is telling moms they’re doing a great job. I might tweak some things here or there, but you know those those postpartum hormones, baby needs to be fed 24 hours a day. like you just start to think that everything in the world is wrong. And so mostly what we do is support. But you know,

Dr. Betty DeLass: thank you for sharing that. It’s a great resource to have. Okay. Um my favorite question to ask everyone is what do you want to be known for in the world?

Sherri Gunn: What do I want to be known for in the world? Honestly, I just want to be known and remembered for being compassionate and supportive and caring. Like in the medical worlds that I’ve been in for a long, long time, um you I have had the people who have imprinted on me and on my heart and have helped me through some horrible things. Um and they just kind of stay with you forever. And that’s like I we just love being a part of people’s journeys in finding good health whether it’s tongue tie myofunctional therapy or other things that we do like the craniosacral therapy or the neuro feedback. We just we want to be a resource for parents and families to be able to help people. Um I had one patient that was a little three-year-old and had been taken to the doctor every six months because of drooling and and had two speech therapists. They were going to two speech therapists had been to the doctor every six months for drooling. They came into me and I was like, “Lift your tongue up.” And he was so tongue-tied and had been missed and this poor family had been struggling for so long and I was like, “Well, let’s talk about this. Let’s figure out, you know, best the best scenario for each patient is very different.” Sometimes it’s, “Hey, we need to wait a little while and do some other therapy before we release it.” And other times it’s like, “Wow, we can release this like today.” Um, so there’s a lot that goes into it and I think people don’t realize that, especially as kids and adults, you’re doing weeks of myofunctional therapy before the tongue tie release and then you’re doing months of myofunctional therapy after the tongue tie release. So, it’s not a quick fix. And if people aren’t willing to put in the time and energy, then we’re not the place for them. Um, because I now know there’s a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it, and I refuse to do it the wrong way anymore. Right. So, it’s it’s kind of it’s been a learning curve for sure and we’re learning every day and we’re changing all the time and that’s I think the hardest part about the tongue tie world is you know when I started this 5 years ago it was like don’t suture don’t suture leave everything open and then all of a sudden now it’s like suture and then all of a sudden it was like less sutures some glue like every time we go to the conference for the updates because so we go to it for every year for the updates there’s something new and so we’re like okay we’re going to change this or this or you know so if you worked with me 10 years ago or five years ago and I was doing something different, it’s because I learned something new and have a better way, right? And so we’re always just trying to improve on what we can.

Dr. Betty DeLass: Love that. Okay. Where can we find you? Where are you located? Website, socials, all

Sherri Gunn: the longest ever is utahbreastfeedingandtonguetie.com. Double check it because you’re going to miss a letter or put a wrong one in. Um you can call us at 801-923-4122. Um we’re located in Bountiful off of fourth north. Uh and we share the space with some midwives. So they have a birth center in the basement and share some office space. Um but that’s where Utah Breastfeeding and Tongue Tie is. You can also send us a text on that. Um but if you want to come in for a consultation and see kind of what’s going on and an assessment, we’re just happy to help.

Dr. Betty DeLass: Amazing. Thank you so much for taking your time today, Sherri, to be on our spotlight series. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and thank you for all that you’re doing in the community here.

Sherri Gunn: Oh, it’s been great. Thanks for asking all the fun questions. I can talk about this forever.

Dr. Betty DeLass: Yes, absolutely.